Foreign Secretary William Hague Discusses Situation in the Middle East on 'Murnaghan'

Sunday, 27 February 2011 16:25

Foreign Secretary William Hague talked about the latest developments in the Middle East in an interview with Dermot Murnaghan on Sky News.

Dermot Murnaghan: Well then as Alex Rossi’s just been telling us, the most shocking events so far in the turmoil sweeping the Middle East are unfolding in Libya with reports that Colonel Gaddafi’s security forces have been machine gunning protestors in the city of Benghazi.

Those who’ve been able to get their voices heard with communications largely cut off have made a desperate appeal for help from the outside world.

Well joining us now from Darlington is the Foreign Secretary William Hague. A very good morning to you Foreign Secretary, well what help …

William Hague: Good morning.

Dermot Murnaghan: … can the UK offer these people in Libya?

William Hague: Well I think it’s very important first of all to make clear that the world is watching, despite the fact that TV cameras don’t have access, that we can’t see on your screens images such as we’ve seen from Egypt and Bahrain, we can’t see those things from Libya because it is such a closed society to the, to the international media. Nevertheless the world is watching and will find out in due course what has happened there and I think we have to increase the international pressure and condemnation. The United Kingdom condemns what the, what the Libyan Government has been doing and how they have responded to these protests and we look to other countries to do the same. So I will be raising that at the meeting of the European Union Foreign Ministers which takes place in Brussels tomorrow. We’ll be encouraging Arab countries too to voice their condemnation of these actions. The best way forward is, is dialogue in all of these situations and that is what we are asking for.

Dermot Murnaghan: Dialogue with Gaddafi, a dictator. The UK’s being trying to normalise relations I suppose with him over recent years, there was the release of Abdelbaset al Megrahi, oil deals et cetera. Isn’t this showing us that the old rule applies, the rule from the 1930s, you cannot appease a dictator.

William Hague: Yes it, it does show that and that’s why I feel very comfortable using strong language about the behaviour of the Libyan Government. I think we should recognise however that the improvement in relations with Libya from the, during the 1990s did help to ensure that Libya stopped pursuing a nuclear programme, weapons of mass destruction programme. So there were important gains for the international community in trying to normalise relations with Libya. So I, I don’t think we should regard that as a mistake, but certainly in this situation where disorder has broken out, where people are trying to protest and pursue legitimate political grievances and they are met with sniper fire, with machine guns, with heavy weapons. There is evidence, there are reports of the use of artillery and anti aircraft weapons and of over two hundred people dead in Benghazi, that’s a report that’s not verified yet, but those are reports coming through this morning. Well then the world should not hesitate to condemn those actions.

Dermot Murnaghan: Isn’t there a contradiction in that though Foreign Secretary with respect in that you say you think it was not wrong to attempt to normalise relations with Colonel Gaddafi who we understand and have always understood is an undemocratic to say the least dictator who’s now machine gunning his own people, perhaps we’ve helped to keep him in power there and he wouldn’t be able to be doing this if we had not so called normalised relations.

William Hague: I doubt that what, what happened in attempts to normalise relations made a difference to Colonel Gaddafi staying in power. Though it, it is a case that illustrates the conflicting pressures in foreign policy where of course it is important to encourage even unpleasant regimes to do things that are necessary for the peace of the world and that is why we have discussions with them. We don’t, as, as diplomats, as Foreign Ministers we don’t just do business with people we agree with all of the time. We have to deal with regimes we disagree with in order to try to push them in the right direction and that is what has happened in the case of Libya.

That’s why I went to Syria three weeks ago. We have many differences with Syria, but it is important to engage with them and try to get them to behave in what we regard as a constructive way. So these issues are not black and white, but when it comes to basic human rights and voicing our, not only our concern, but our condemnation about repression and violence against protestors, well then that is black and white and we’re very, very clear where we stand on that.

Dermot Murnaghan: So just to be clear on this, what you’re laying out there in terms of dealing with so called unpalatable regimes Foreign Secretary, let’s say the wave of protests we, may already have done so, reaches Saudi Arabia, probably our key ally, the West’s key ally in the region, a repressive undemocratic regime. But on this one you’d stand four square behind them because they’re so important.

William Hague: Well of course many of these countries in terms of the security of the region are our allies. That doesn’t mean their societies are the same as ours or that they respect human rights in the way that we would like them to do and that is why we encourage sensible reform. Our message to all the Governments of this region is that it’s important to recognise legitimate political and economic grievances, to encourage good economic development, to encourage more open and flexible political systems and that’s the discussion I had yesterday, a good discussion actually with the Crown Prince of Bahrain who is trying now to embark on a real dialogue in Bahrain with opposition groups. That is the right way forward, that’s the sort of thing that the United Kingdom encourages.

Dermot Murnaghan: I mean it is, it is giving you a headache clearly isn’t it, so just to be clear on this, Colonel Gaddafi should stand down, on that we all agree, but King Fahd, maybe he should stay.

William Hague: No we’re not trying, this is why I don’t get involved in saying who should be running individual countries. Our relationship is with countries not with individuals and we stand for certain things we regard as universal, human rights and political freedoms and, and people’s right to economic progress as well. But we don’t try to choose who is running individual countries or to tell them …

Dermot Murnaghan: So, so it’s fine, so it’s fine for …

William Hague: … exactly what they should be doing in those countries.

Dermot Murnaghan: … it’s fine for Colonel Gaddafi to stay on then?

William Hague: Well I’m sure that will be resolved within Libya. We are not going to start saying who should go and who should come. These are sovereign nations, but what Colonel Gaddafi should be doing is respecting basic human rights and there is no sign of that in the dreadful response, the horrifying response of the Libyan authorities to these protests.

Dermot Murnaghan: Okay Mr Hague. Thank you very much indeed. Foreign Secretary William Hague there …

William Hague: Thank you.

Dermot Murnaghan: … on particular the troubles in Libya.